Super Tuner map selection

How to select the right Super Tuner map for your Harley

As an instructor of Harley, EFI calibration with Super Tuner one of the most common mistakes I see people make is selecting the wrong   calibration/map file. Unlike piggy back boxes (i.e. Power Commander), Flash tuning products base cals can be very different from each other.  There are things, hundreds of little things, in the background of every Map/Calibration that make it critical you select the correct one for your motorcycle. One of the more critical things in the background of a base cal is when the MAP (Manifold Air Pressure) sensor is read. It is programmed into the background based on cam timing and reversion pulse (pressure wave) which travels through the intake. Besides determining engine load, this is how the ECM determines outside air pressure which, combined with the IAT (Intake Air Temp) sensor, is used to determine the air density. It’s basically how the ECM knows how much oxygen is in the air. It uses this information to correct the fuel mixture for air condition fluctuations – temp, pressure, humidity – caused by weather and altitude changes.

If the MAP read is off, even if you calibrate your VE tables on a Dyno when the weather changes, the way the bike runs will change as well.

We will discuss proper calibration of the ECM in the future, but for now you should understand that the goal of using a flash tuner is to calibrate the air tables (VE tables) in the ECM to match the air flow through your engine. The actual “tuning” is done after.

Back to selecting a base Cal/map. We select a map for the the things we can’t change.

Here is the list – in the order of importance – we use to pick a base calibration to start with it.

  1.  Year/Family/Model
  2. Cam profile
    1. Intake open degrees (IO)
    2. Exhaust close degrees (EC)
  3. Exhaust System

For choosing a base map/cal, things you can change like Cubic Inches, Injector Size do not matter. You can change them to match your bike.

Year and model I think is pretty self explanatory.

The cam timing has a big effect on the timing of the pressure wave in the intake manifold. Especially the IO and EC. If you understand cam timing events, you may know that IO and EC determine valve overlap. It is critical you understand that the total degrees of overlap is not what we are looking at here. It is when the overlap occurs during the crankshaft rotation that matters for map selection.
pick a base map for a Screamin Eagle cam that has the same or as close as you can find Intake open degrees and exhaust closing degrees.

The exhaust can affect the timing of the pressure wave as well. However, Screamin Eagle doesn’t give you many choices as far as exhaust systems. If you find there are a couple of maps that match #1 & #2, and the one you try doesn’t seem to work so well, you can try one of the others. If you find it does work, make sure you save the exhaust info with its notes, so you can use it in a future bike with a similar set-up.

After you select your base cal/map, you set it up for your motorcycle.

  • Cubic Inches (a good rule is to set this at 1.1xHP as a start point)
  • Injector size
  • ACR
  • If you have VE tables from a map for a bike with similar cams/exhaust/heads… you can paste them into your base map
  • We also would modify or copy and paste ignition tables here if required.

You can set up a MAP gauge in Super Tuner to help see if the base cal MAP read is close. It i should idle at 25-35 kpa  and under a 100% throttle run the manifold pressure should match the air pressure in the room. I read the room pressure off the Dynojet Dyno. At sea level it should be close to 100 kpa. at higher elevations it should be less. Ambient air pressure will change some with the weather.
idleDyno-weather

 

At this point if possible, we would flatten the Air Fuel Table put the bike on a Dyno and dial in the VE tables. We will discuss that more in a future post. as well as setting up the tune: air fuel table and closed loop.

Until next time.
Ride Free

Mike

www.danielsperformance.com
www.mjd2.com
www.adventuresinahallway.com
Pilot Gear

www.vegasadventureflights.com

 

75 thoughts on “Super Tuner map selection

    • Thanks Tim, let me know if there is anything you want me to do a post on.

      This information is for discussion purposes of motorcycles being used in close course competition only. It maybe against federal and local laws to modify your motorcycle in this way for use on a public road or highway

  1. Mike –

    I have a SESPT for my 2005 FLHRI, but there’s no base maps in the software that work. In fact, there’s exactly 1 map for my setup and it’s not particularly close.

    How would I get a map that’s closer matched to my bike so I even have a decent place to start with the SmartTune?

    • Hey Mike,
      Great Question. On an older bike like yours we need to know what what ECM it has in it so we can determine what Calibrations are compatible with it.

      Please give me more info.
      1. What is your ECM part Number? Calibration ID?
      You can find these by connecting the Super Tuner VCI to your bike.
      Click on toolbox.
      Turn your ignition and run switch on
      Click on System info
      After we determine what file type (first 3 numbers of Calibration) is compatible with your ECM we need the usual list of mods I discuss in my map selection blog post
      2. year and model you have told me.
      3. Cam
      4. Exhaust
      5. also what Throttle body and Injectors

      If you can give me the above requested info I will try to recommend a good base map from what Screaming Eagle has available.

      There are basically 2 versions of ECM that could be in your 2005 FLHRI
      as per SEST software there are 7 base cals that that will work with your bike for each.

      For the touring bikes using the older part number ECM -01 the Super tuner software recommends these cals:
      105EV100
      105HG018
      105HL026
      105LF003
      105LG003
      105LJ011
      105LL006

      For the touring bikes using the newer part number ECM -05(A,B,C) the Super tuner software recommends these cals:
      127EV100
      127HG019
      127HL026
      127LF004
      127LG004
      127LJ011
      127LL005

      I hope this helps.
      Please keep us posted.
      I’m looking forward to your response.

      This information is for discussion purposes of motorcycles being used in close course competition only. It maybe against federal and local laws to modify your motorcycle in this way for use on a public road or highway

      • Mike,

        Thanks for getting back with me.

        1. What is your ECM part Number? Calibration ID?
        ECM PN for the bike is 32498-05, and I’ve got Cal ID 127LF004 loaded up.

        2. year and model you have told me.
        3. Cam
        Stock

        4. Exhaust
        Vance and Hines ProPipe 2:1

        I took it out on a recorded run, but when I come back to the machine and download the data I’m not seeing a “SmartTune” option under VE in the front or rear cylinders. The data loads in the toolbox just fine, but there’s no SmartTune in the Working pane. Perhaps this ECM isn’t SmartTune compatible because it’s open loop?

  2. Hadn’t even noticed you’d put that up! I’ve got it and loaded it up on the ECM. Off for a test drive! Thank you so much! I’ll post back the results. Did you want a recording from the ECM for your files?

    Beers on me when you’re in DC!

  3. Here’s a bit of feedback on the map :

    1. Power is clean and consistent in all gears
    2. Rev limit pegs in each gear from a highway ramp launch at 48, 63, 83, and well into felony on 4th and 5th gear.
    3. In normal highway cruising I can easily overtake a car in 4th or 5th gear equally. Plenty of grunt left, cruises with no effort, 25% throttle.

    I’m getting a ton of popping when I close the throttle at any speed of gear. Given the exhaust is torqued down properly, I’m thinking I’ll lower the enleanment setting a bit and run her again.

    • Thanks for the feed back.
      Glad to hear its running ok.
      Decel Eleanment table does not typically help with Decel Pop. Are you running the VH street baffle? that would help.
      Also advancing (bigger number) the timing in the lowest KPA Column (far left) helps. I usually add 5 at a time from 1750/2000-2500/3000
      Same column on (lowest kpa/fare left) on the air fuel table you can try enriching the mixture (smaller number) maybe 13 or 12.5 1750-2500/3000.

      When I get back to my computer I will take a look at it make some changes and post the map if you like… Couple hours.

      This information is for discussion purposes of motorcycles being used in close course competition only. It maybe against federal and local laws to modify your motorcycle in this way for use on a public road or highway

        • I own this site and run the server it is on. If I stop using it and am still alive I will take it down. So if it’s up it’s a safe bet I’m using it.
          I am very very busy running my business and answer tech questions for our members only site. As the Members pay to have accesses to our tech tips and the higher level members pay to be able to ask tech questions they and the member site are always a priority. So this blog can go a few months between posts. I stopped posting my email directly on the web as it leads to wayyyyy to much spam mail. There are contact forms on my websites but keep in mind that I’m very busy and paying customers have to come before non paying. I’m sorry about that but that what pays to keep this site up.

          If you are trying to pick a Super Tuner map for a motorcycle you have come to the correct post. This blog post tells you how to do it.

          This information is for discussion purposes of motorcycles being used in close course competition only. It maybe against federal and local laws to modify your motorcycle in this way for use on a public road or highway

          • Well from what I have read so far, it seems to be good info. I am in search of a good set-up/Map for my 2008 HD Ultra Classic – FLHTCUI. these are the things I have added to it, but first, ECM Part# 34245-08A. Cal. ID; 205TD004 ( of course a Screaming Eagle Super Tuner). It does have stock cams, right now in the future SE 255’s, when I get around to it. Exhaust; I have the Fullsac True Dual Conversion kit, with HD CVO 4″ slip-ons that also have the Fullsac 2.25″ Power Cores. Throttle Body; Stock, with a SE Ventilator Air Cleaner installed plus a Vance and Hines Fuel Pack (for better throttle response). I also have a Dual Fan Oil Cooler system installed. The Cal. ID I have programmed in the ECU seems to be half and half, so I’m not exactly sure what is the issue, I can’t put my finger on it. It seems like it either loads up or not enough fuel. This usually happens after I’ve been riding for a few hours, when it gets to temp. I could be wrong, it could be my RPM’s or something else. All I know is it’s aggravating, can’t enjoy performance or my ride. For Example, I was running about 75 MPH, I guess in the 3000 RPM range, 6th gear, I went to change lanes, backed off the throttle did my change went to get back into the throttle and it was like it was struggling to get fuel or something. Could it be the pipes are to big or something else? Scratching my head..

          • Our goal is to educate you on how to pick your own maps.
            Amusing you have stock cams the stage 1 map will work as a starting point. Since you have aftermarket exhausts you need to have the map custom calibrated to your bike on a Dyno.

            If you install a different cam like the 255 you will need a different base cal and a calibration on a Dyno.

            You will find links to the lists of Dyno Centers we recommend here: http://www.danielsperformance.com/rdc.html

            This information is for discussion purposes of motorcycles being used in close course competition only. It maybe against federal and local laws to modify your motorcycle in this way for use on a public road or highway

    • Try this version I massaged the decel area some.
      http://www.danielsperformance.com/member/admin/assets/2002-2005-Touring-Model-SE-Air-Cleaner-VH-Pro-Pipe-2-into-1-improved-decel.dt0
      I checked the rev limiter it is 6200. I wouldn’t recommend any higher for your set up.

      Keep me posted,

      This information is for discussion purposes of motorcycles being used in close course competition only. It maybe against federal and local laws to modify your motorcycle in this way for use on a public road or highway

  4. Mike,

    Just running the baffles that came with it. The bike used to have Rineharts but they got thrashed and I put these guys on there for the increased performance.

    Will load it up and hit a ride tomorrow. Did you want a recording for your files?

    Thanks again!

    • Mike, You posted you were running a pro pipe? From your last post it sounds like you have Slip-ons! whole different Map than a prop pipe. A Vance and Hines Propipe is a 2 into 1 and only has 1 muffler, with 1 baffle (it is changeable). Please clarify your exhaust system.

      This information is for discussion purposes of motorcycles being used in close course competition only. It maybe against federal and local laws to modify your motorcycle in this way for use on a public road or highway

  5. Hi Mike,
    maybe you could help me to start with SEPST to tune my 2006 FXDCI.
    I’ve installed V&H Sideshots with quiet baffles and K&N RK-3909-1 air intake.
    I have no idea about which MAP should I choose from SEPST library to start with.

    • Like it states in the post I need to know 3 things about a bike to choose a calibration (map).
      1. Year/Model
      2. Cam
      3. Exhaust

      1. your bike is an 06 Dyna (FXD) which is a special bike being the first Harley to O2 sensors it was the only 06 bike to have them. Your bike will need one of the 141***** cals. It is important that you use one that says “with O2 sensors” in the description.
      2. You for got #2. I can assume you have a stock cam but I would rather know.
      3. Exhaust Screamin Eagle has no maps with for Vance and Hines exhaust. So we try to find the closest one and then calibrate the VE tables on a dyno.

      So with what I know and assuming you have a stock cam I think you should start with Cal: 141NX002.dt0

      To set the cal up properly you need to know the cubic inches. Your bike originally was 88CI and it still might be, however it was very common in the early years of the Twin Cam to install Stage-II 95 inch kits which generally included Screamin Eagle 203 cams. If it has 203 cams you should start with Cal: 141NW002.dt0

      Also worth mentioning is that 2006 Harleys originally came with 8-degree injectors which by now most of them have been changed to the 25-degree injector. Both injectors flow the same volume of fuel so there is no change to the injector size in the tuning set up table. However the 25-degree injector atomizes the fuel better which causes the bike to run slightly richer. The cals I mentioned are for the 8-degree injectors which are set-up slightly richer for the less efficient injector. In most cases it is better to error on the slightly rich side.

      I will be posting some starter maps in the member section of my website in the very near future. http://www.danielsperformance.com

      I hope this helps.

      This information is for discussion purposes of motorcycles being used in close course competition only. It maybe against federal and local laws to modify your motorcycle in this way for use on a public road or highway

      • First of all I must apologise about not answering sooner.
        Thank you for your answer Mike!
        Back in business 🙂
        -My bike (2006 FXDCI )is an international (European) issue still without o2 sensors.
        -Cams and injectors are standard.
        -Engine is a proud stock 88 ci.

        cheers
        Esze

    • Thanks for the complement. I’m trying to build a data base of useful information here. Slowly but surely.

      I’m assuming you meant Camshaft? The best way to ID camshafts is to open up the gear case cover and look. Make sure you do it as per the manual. Most cams are marked on a lobe which may require removal of cams/support-plate. Which will requiring revealing the pressure on the cams from the push-rods. If you don’t have adjustable push rods now is a good time to install them.

      Or if you have a degree wheel, and know how to use it you can always check the Intake opening and Exhaust closing to help pick a map. Or all the events if you want to verify it is properly ground. Juts remember all Harley cams I’m aware of except Leinweber degrees are marked at .053in of lifter lift from the base circle.

      I hope this helps,

      This information is for discussion purposes of motorcycles being used in close course competition only. It maybe against federal and local laws to modify your motorcycle in this way for use on a public road or highway

      • Thanks for getting back with me.

        Now I have another question. I found a base map into SESTP software.

        I must upload it into the bike ECU? What benefits I will get?

        What the best procedure to do; upload the new base map found, after start recording data or record data/upload base map found?

        thanks

        • Yes you must upload it to the motorcycles ECM (ECU).
          A proper calibration allows the ECM to properly correct for ever changing air conditions. Temperature Pressure Humidity. Just picking a base cal and loading it to your ECM does not guarantee this. The best way to know for sure that the calibration will be what your bike needs is to properly check it/Adjust on a Dynamometer.

          The procedures for uploading are in the Super tuner manual/help. As for recording the data and making the corrections It takes a 4 day class to get dealer techs up to speed on the procedure. It is a bit much to cover here.

          This information is for discussion purposes of motorcycles being used in close course competition only. It maybe against federal and local laws to modify your motorcycle in this way for use on a public road or highway

          • Hi Mike ,
            Thanks for getting back with me. Now have another issue.
            I think I’m doing well. I’ve done the reflash / uploading of base cal. I did the record data, saved the files with success and load them in the VE tables and used functions (add new), (generate), (Interpolate) (update). Now I can not: => Edit the RPM table => Edit Decel Enleanment table to remove the backs fire. In both not appear the working option, last save, original, smart tune. Could you give me a hint?
            thanks Jenner

  6. Hi Mike

    First I would like to give the thumbs up to your site!

    I am as we speak looking in to purchase a SEST or a TTS Mastertune. I just found a brand new Race Tuner on Ebay for a good price though. Is it compatible with my 2011 Wide Glide (stock cams, V&H bigshots) and is it the same cables used for the SEST as the SERT (since cable kit is missing on the one I found)? And what´s the difference between the two (Screamin Eagles=) )?
    I am guessing between TTS and SEST you would recomend the SEST. Right?

    Best reggards
    Kalle Larsson

    • Hey Kalle,
      Sorry for the delay response. Hope it still helps.
      “Race Tuner” was discontinued in 2008. It would not be compatible with your 2011 Harley. Also be very cautious buying Flash Tuners on ebay. Most of them will only tune one bike, so if you buy one someone else has used and miss represented on ebay it may not work on your bike.
      TTS and SEST both are great products. TTS has more features than SEST but there really isn’t any advantage for the set up you have. If you start adding aggressive non Screaming Eagle cams, or changing your gear ratios (pulleys, Baker 7 speed…) then the TTS has better options.

      Personally I like most flash tuners, but am very found of the Dynojet Power Vision. Besides being a great flash tuner it doubles as a gauge you can mount on your bike. It will view almost any channel from your ECM, up to 6. You could use it as a tech but being the data geek I am I like the mpg gauge features allowing me to track a couple different trips mpg. I use one for the trip I’m on and the other for tracking mpg service to service.

      This information is for discussion purposes of motorcycles being used in close course competition only. It maybe against federal and local laws to modify your motorcycle in this way for use on a public road or highway

  7. Hello Mike,

    Some questions from a “home sepst” user from Europe.
    Riding a stock FXDWG 2010 modified with SE airfilter and aftermarket slipons (off road dB-killers installed). Loaded the SE 176AE006 base map. VE tables are calibrated on a dyno @ 13.0 afr 2 wide band 02 sensors.

    I compared the dyno calibrated VE-map with the SE basemap. Result: the stock basemap VE numbers are (for a good) part of the tune higher (Rich)!?
    I always thought the SE map for the Dyna was lean…….?

    Curious about the leaner calibrated new tune, I did a smart tune data run. My stock O2 sensors report in many situations a 5% higher VE-new!? (lean condition)

    After calibrating the VE tables on a dyno the o2 sensors should report VE = VE-NEW??
    Long term adaptive fuel will change the whole tune if VE- new is different from VE??

    My close loop bias is set to 720 all over the board.
    AFR Close loop RANGE is decreased (map 27-80 & 750 rpm – 3500 rpm).
    (bikes 02 sensors tested with fresh ones but same VE values) (02 Denso vs stock Bosch)

    Do you have tips or tricks optimising my tuning file, CLBias and or AFR close loop range?

    There is a lot to learn and many good information on this site.
    Thanks for posting! Very interesting!

    Best regards from Europe

    • Hi Europe,
      Thanks for the compliments on my blog.
      I hope you put the AFR table back to original.

      Airflow through an engine is way more complicated than most people realize. As an example putting a very open race exhaust on a bike may flow less air in the lower RPMs than the higher RPMs which will result in lower than stock VEs down low. most people would just assume it flow more everywhere and should have larger VEs to match. No airflow change will be the same amount across the board. It is very common that performance upgrades are a trade, gaining power (airflow) in some throttle positions/RPMs at the sacrifice of power at other throttle positions/RPMs.

      I am not very familiar with the db killers. My brother who travels to Europe often has told me about them. My guess is that the Screamin Eagle Slip-ons in some Areas of the map.

      Not totally sure what you mean by”After calibrating the VE tables on a dyno the o2 sensors should report VE = VE-NEW??”?
      In the data tool in Super tuner Closed Loop changes are always represented as Intergrator%. New VE is always a product of that.

      Long term adaptive fuel will change the whole tune if VE- new is different from VE?? We don’t really think of it like that but yes.
      The is no such thing as perfect VE. Closed loop will always make changes. With the engine at normal operating temperature, under steady throttle or light acceleration, using the same fuel you calibrated the VE tables with if the intergrator is +/- 10% (90-110) you have really good VEs. Any intergrator readings on Decel, or Acceleration don’t mean anything.
      There is a ton of stuff going on here. Some of it is Wide Band O2s (on dyno) don’t necessary read the same as the narrow bands on your bike. They should be close but for too many reason to cover here rarely are exactly the same.
      After your dyno tune when you buy fuel different fuel blends affect the O2 readings, which is one of the many great things about closed loop is it can correct for different fuel blends. Fuel blends can very truck load to truck load at the same fuel station.
      Soooo much more, need a closed loop blog post, a fuel blend blog post, and a Dyno Wideband/stoichiometric blog post… oh and how to properly sample the exhaust, and do correct accurate runs,….. The equipment changes faster than I can write about it,

      For your bike 720 is a great Closed Loop Bias setting.

      If you respond to this and want to share I would be curious as to who did your dyno calibration/tune, what brand Dynamometer they used, how they sampled the exhaust?

      I hope this helps
      Thanks,
      Mike

      By the way I’m sure you meant SE 176AE106 base map

      This information is for discussion purposes of motorcycles being used in close course competition only. It maybe against federal and local laws to modify your motorcycle in this way for use on a public road or highway

      • Hi Mike,
        Thanks for reply. Yes the base map was the SE 176AE106.
        Calibration of the VE tables is done @13.0 AFR across the board.
        (After finishing the calibration all AFR’s are set to the original value. Only the close loop working range is made smaller as described in my previous post).

        Brand of the dynamometer: Dynostar
        o2 samples: bikes o2 sensors replaced by 2 wideband sensors connected to the dynamometer.

        My bikes o2 integrators (95-105%) measured under riding conditions with the SEPST. So looks like a pretty good VE calibration.

        Learned a lot from your answer.
        Keep on writing .

  8. Thanks for getting back with me.

    Now I have another question. I found a base map into SESTP software.

    I must upload it into the bike ECU? What benefits I will get?

    What the best procedure to do; upload the new base map found, after start recording data or record data/upload base map found?

    thanks

  9. Hi

    Can you help me out with a map for my bike?
    I have the super tuner pro, but do not know what calibration to select for my Stage 1.
    My bike is a stock 2005 Night Train with EFI.
    I just put on a SE Heavy Breather and Vance & Hines Big Shots Staggerd.

    Thanks
    Henk Westra
    Netherlands

    • Hey Henk,
      Just like Mike who posted a similar question on a 2005 cal for a touring bike, I can’t answer this until I know more about your motorcycle specifically your ECM.

      On an older bike like yours we need to know what what ECM it has in it so we can determine what Calibrations are compatible with it.

      Please give me more info.
      1. What is your ECM part Number? Calibration ID?
      You can find these by connecting the Super Tuner VCI to your bike.
      Click on toolbox.
      Turn your ignition and run switch on
      Click on System info
      After we determine what file type (first 3 numbers of Calibration) is compatible with your ECM we need the usual list of mods I discuss in my map selection blog post
      2. year and model: you have told me.
      3. Cam: I’m assuming stock
      4. Exhaust: Vance & Hines Big Shots Staggered
      5. also what Throttle body and Injectors: Once again I’m assuming stock

      If you can give me the above requested info I will try to recommend a good base map from what Screaming Eagle has available. We may have one for your exhaust getting ready to go up in our map data base on the Members Only site. I can let you know if you can get your ECM info to me.

      I hope this helps.

      I’m looking forward to your response.

      This information is for discussion purposes of motorcycles being used in close course competition only. It maybe against federal and local laws to modify your motorcycle in this way for use on a public road or highway

      • Thank you Mike

        ECM part# 32498-05
        Calibbr ID: 33269-05B
        Year and model: 2005 FXSTBI Nighttrain
        Cam: stock
        Exhaust:: Vance & Hines Big Shots Staggered
        Intake: Screamin’Eagle Heavy Breather
        Throttle body and injectors: stock

        Hope this helps
        Henk

          • Hank,
            I have searched through all the comments and the only comments I find for you is this one and another identical to that.
            Nothing with any bike or map/Cal info… sorry but I don’t know what happened to it.

            Unfortunately, I have my hands full with our member site, Training, and Torque Wars. I’m very sorry but I do not have time to research a map recommendation for everyone. I wish I did.
            The purpose of this blog and our member site is to help teach you to research your own starting calibrations/map. Keep in mind that as Screamin Eagle does not build cals/maps for aftermarket (non-stock or Screamin Eagle) exhaust systems. Unless you are running the stock exhaust with slip-ons and the base cal/map for your set up is for stock exhaust with slip-ons it will need dialed in on a dyno by a skilled dyno tuner to be the best for your bike.
            Sorry I don’t have more time

            This information is for discussion purposes of motorcycles being used in close course competition only. It maybe against federal and local laws to modify your motorcycle in this way for use on a public road or highway

  10. Hi Mike
    I put an Andrews 57h and Pro Pipe onto my 2014 103 softail with a V&H FP3 (which was great for my previous state 1)

    Anyway, V&H say there is no cam change required between stock and the 57 – I don’t know what their tuner changes but those two cams are definitely different. Thing is the V&H Pro Pipe map gives front and rear too rich codes until I completely re wrote the first couple of columns to match the HD Tourer HO103 (which took some 100 number all the way down to 66). Even then, autotuning took in the order of 20% out of the 0-2500revs 2 and 5% throttle column (some VEs have dropped to 48!!) which makes me think the start map is a country mile out to start with.

    So having read a pile of forum posts and downloaded Power Vison and TTS software and reviewed MANY maps, I’ve decided that nothing looks remotely close to where my autotune is trying to take me so am wondering what is up, and how to finish tuning (short of get thee to a Dyno)

    …and then I find your little gem – that the cam timing should determine when the MAP get read, and that MAP at idle should be 25~35 …mine is sat at 40!!

    Does this sound all wrong to you? I know you suggest the Pro Pipe needs a proper tune.
    cheers

    • Sorry for the delay we are very busy gearing up for the fall training season. Big changes in the Dyno tuning world.

      I’m assuming you are using the V&H Auto feature. This uses the stock O2 sensors which means it uses the stock closed loop system. Our experience with this using anyone’s product even Harley’s Super Tuner is that it is fine for a stock cam with a slip-on, but the more modified the bike the less accurate the results. If you have a cam and a full exhaust system, don’t use it.

      In my opinion with a Propipe and a 257 cam you need a different tuner so you can use a different base cal with more control over your settings. Super Tuner offers a couple that are comparable, but you would need a good DYno tune to get the VEs to match the map. Dynojet would probably email you a cal with a a proper base and VEs that are pretty close for their Power Vision.

      I hope this helps,

      This information is for discussion purposes of motorcycles being used in close course competition only. It maybe against federal and local laws to modify your motorcycle in this way for use on a public road or highway

      • Hi Mike
        No worries, it wasn’t as if I was paying for your time 🙂 but I really do appreciate your thoughts there.

        I think you are right about the FP3 autotune – one day it seems to get close and the next day the weather changes or something and its blooming awful again.

        I did look at the Power Vision maps but couldn’t see they had anything for a 2014 softail with a cam – so unless they have something behind the counter for proper customers…?

        I think I have come to the same conclusion as you suggest …I need to find a good proper dyno tuner here in the UK somewhere.

        cheers
        Gordon

  11. Hi,

    I am using the SERT that cme with the bike when I purchased it. Im trying to get it to not blacken everything on the back of my bike (pipe tips, bags fender) and cool it down a bit. The bike has the stock header pipes, stage 1 air cleaner and some screamin eagle slip ons. Its a 2007 Road Glide 96 inch 6 speed fuel injected.

    The tune its coming up with when reading the ecm is:

    176PZ005-A1.MT6

    Ecm number: 32852-07

    Thanks for any help you can give

    • It sounds rich. Make sure closed loop is turned on by checking the cells on the air fuel table. The cells in the cruise 70kpa and lower by 3500RPM and lower area of the Airfuel table should be 14.6 with a red background

      This information is for discussion purposes of motorcycles being used in close course competition only. It maybe against federal and local laws to modify your motorcycle in this way for use on a public road or highway

  12. Mike,
    I am veturing into unknown territory with my Bagger::
    2000 FLHTCUI
    Having the hydraulic can tensioner installed along with the SE-211 cams
    And the Vance and Hines Pro-Pipe 2 into 1 complete exhaust system.
    I had the stage 1 done when I purchased the bike so it breathes well.
    ECM is stock with Stage 1 flash
    I am having this done at Wausau Harley-Davidson in Wisconsin
    They said a normal Stage 2 SE flash is all I will need..
    I ride long distance, short distance, one and two up
    Your comments questions concerns??
    Thank you,
    S. Lloyd Isaacson

    • Your 2000 FLHTCUI is a Magneti Marelli EFI system. Super Tuner only works on the Newer Delphi EFI bikes. So pretty much your only choices are one of the Harley stage burns 1 or 2 (Stage 2 injectors also if memory serves me correctly) or a Power Commander.

      I really wish I had more to tell you but the EFI system was ran from 95-2001 on touring bikes and doesn’t have much support for it today.

      If you install a Power Commander make sure the rubber boot on the connector goes over the aluminum ears/ends on the ECM as per the instructions or it will fill up with water and stop working.

      Good luck with it,

      This information is for discussion purposes of motorcycles being used in close course competition only. It maybe against federal and local laws to modify your motorcycle in this way for use on a public road or highway

  13. Hi Mike,
    my name is Andrea from Italy, sorry for my bad English,
    I read that you are very good at mapping harley, in Italy there is no one capable!
    I have a dyna SB 2014 103 cams se204, round k & n filter and exhaust 2 in 1 type thunderheader,
    I wanted to ask if you have a map (.dt0 for SE Super Tuner) for my bike with good performance that does not cause problems of ping.
    I hope to be able to explain.
    Thank you in advance.
    With respect
    Andrea

    • Unfortunately, I have my hands full with our member site, Training, and Torque Wars. I’m very sorry but I do not have time to research a map recommendation for everyone. I wish I did.
      The purpose of this blog and our member site is to help teach you to research your own starting calibrations/map. Keep in mind that as Screamin Eagle does not build cals/maps for aftermarket (non-stock or Screamin Eagle) exhaust systems. Unless you are running the stock exhaust with slip-ons and the base cal/map for your set up is for stock exhaust with slip-ons it will need dialed in on a dyno by a skilled dyno tuner to be the best for your bike.
      Sorry I don’t have more time

      This information is for discussion purposes of motorcycles being used in close course competition only. It maybe against federal and local laws to modify your motorcycle in this way for use on a public road or highway

  14. Hi, Great site and useful information about the basics of the SEPST.

    Any MAP recommendation for my setup ?

    ECM part# 34245-10
    Cal. ID: 34424-10A
    Year and model: 2010 FLTRX Road Glide Custom
    Cam: stock
    Headers: S&S Power Tune Duals
    Exhaust:: CFR 4”
    Intake: Screamin’Eagle Heavy Breather
    Throttle body and injectors: stock

    I am thinking of getting a Dyno tune at spring and if need be replace the cams depending on the feedback I get from the tech performing the tune.

    • Unfortunately, I have my hands full with our member site, Training, and Torque Wars. I’m very sorry but I do not have time to research a map recommendation for everyone. I wish I did.
      The purpose of this blog and our member site is to help teach you to research your own starting calibrations/map. Keep in mind that as Screamin Eagle does not build cals/maps for aftermarket (non-stock or Screamin Eagle) exhaust systems. Unless you are running the stock exhaust with slip-ons and the base cal/map for your set up is for stock exhaust with slip-ons it will need dialed in on a dyno by a skilled dyno tuner to be the best for your bike.
      Sorry I don’t have more time

      This information is for discussion purposes of motorcycles being used in close course competition only. It maybe against federal and local laws to modify your motorcycle in this way for use on a public road or highway

  15. Hi Guys,
    My bike is a Dyna 2009, SE255 cams, 15psi boost supercharger, yellow band injectors. I haven’t found anyone with a dyno who can map this bike without trying to put on a PCV and Autotune. Using smart tune and the oem o2 sensors, I still have cells reporting VE values exceeding 127. The tune table has the injectors delivering 5.32mgs of fuel and the CI is set to 130. The VE tables are averaging in the 90’s and latest trims are only showing a couple of cells in the 127.5 range. This bike goes hard though probably a little thirsty now my range has been reduced to only 220kms. Has anyone else got experience in tuning supercharged rides using only the SERT.

    • I do not consider myself an expert in boosted bikes. But I have played with my fair share.

      What does the manufacture of your Supercharger say?

      First off the stock MAP sensor is basically worthless on any forced induction bike as they can not pressure higher than atmosphere (1-BAR). So you need a 3-BAR sensor. Even Screamin Eagle says not to use Super Tuner on a forced induction motorcycle!

      Flash tuners in the Harley world are not recommended for forced induction. Unless someone who really knows what they are doing installs a 3 BAR MAP sensor and goes through the tons of extra work translating the voltages to the proper cells on the ignition and air fuel tables to build the calibration for it will never be right with a flash tuner alone. Most knowledgeable people I know who build a high performance Turbo Harley use both a flash tuner and a Power COmmander 5, and of course replace the stock 1-BAR MAP sensor with a 3-BAR MAP sensor.

      A big part of problem is the Stock MAP sensor only reads 1-BAR/1 Atmosphere/100kpa. The highest pressure cells on Air Fuel and Ignition tables in your bike are 100kpa. If you truly hit 15psi “boost” you are over 200kpa. Your MAP sensor is pegged at its max 100kpa the whole time not allowing the ignition timing or AFR request to change for the different pressures while you ride.. Inside the ECM each kpa of your tables = a voltages from the 0-5volt MAP sensor. If you install a 3 BAR sensor it still reports a 0-5 volt signal only now theoretically the voltage that represented 100kpa represents 300kpa so your 15psi is now somewhere near the middle and now you actually have different columns for adjust as the pressure goes up and down while you ride.

      The easy solution is a Power Commander 5, with a 3BAR MAP sensor, an autotune module, and a target air fuel table set up for boost over RPM.
      The stock Harley MAP sensor only reads to 1 atmosphere (100kpa).

      By the way is it a belt driven, or gear driven Supercharger?

      Like I said I do not consider myself an expert in boosted bikes. Personally I like good a NOS system. Done right they are a ton of fun.

      This information is for discussion purposes of motorcycles being used in close course competition only. It maybe against federal and local laws to modify your motorcycle in this way for use on a public road or highway

      • Hey Mike
        Thanks, bike is belt driven. I have mapped as far as I am game to go on Screamin Eagle Tuner and agree with what you have stated. So what 3bar sensor would change out the 1bar that harley have installed? Like your idea of NOS only it is a little hard to fill up in the middle of the desert. Final figures were the fuel table has the engine size at 130ci and 5.32mg for 95 octane fuel. No knocks showing anymore, no rolling backfire on roll off. Used a TwinScan II to do the testing. What 3bar sensor do you recommend for the PowerCommander V?

        • Sorry for the confusion. I meant the super charger, not your bike. Is it driven by a belt, or gear drive?

          Harley Delphi bikes use a GM style MAP sensor.
          Dynojet actually sells a GM style 3-bar MAP sensor for their Power Commanders. If you reach out to them they may be able to give you some good advice. I have watched them do several boosted projects from 600cc Land Speed record setting bikes to 200hp 96CID Harleys.
          Here is a 3 bar MAP sensor I found on Amazon.
          If you run the 3 bar with Super Tuner you will have to figure out what each column on the MAP based tables mean now. i.e. 100kpa will be cloder to 300kpa.
          If I was doing it I would be running the 6gms injectors. Always set the injector size to match the actual injector in the bike.
          With the boost you are claiming I would think the CID could probably higher.

          This information is for discussion purposes of motorcycles being used in close course competition only. It maybe against federal and local laws to modify your motorcycle in this way for use on a public road or highway

  16. I agree with your feedback, I have seen those results during the smart tune process. Now using the Twin Scan II, no pinging and no popping during decel. Map values are over 200kpa and putting in around 300 cfm. Temp is sitting at a consistent 110 deg Celsius. I had to shift the engine size up to 130ci to get the ve tables to stablise. Putting in 5.32gm of 95 octane. The bike does not like 91 or 98 octane. What map sensor replaces the stock to achieve 3bar? I have had no answer back from procharger, about the 3bar map sensor they use do you know which one it is? Pulled the clutch out, I have 4 blued clutch plates with 3 more showing signs of color change. It seems the heavy duty pressure plate is not enough, might be time to upgrade clutch. Any thoughts on what that should be?

    • No offenses but smart tuning a bike with the boost you claim is the scariest thing I have heard in a long time. Seriously it makes me cringe.
      Smart tune makes the bike run 14.6AFR everywhere. Ever peak boost, or 100% throttle, 6000 RPM… everywhere…..
      That may work on a stock Harley engine (I wouldn’t do it to mine) but it is a recipe for self destruction on any high performance engine, which is why Smart Tune is disabled on a V-Rod. You run a big risk of blowing it up!

      The forced induction experts I know run their engines at 12AFR or so under high boost or high load.

      Popping on decel is not an indication of the tune/calibration of a fuel injected bike. Pinging normally only happens under higher loads.

      The “Rooster” our 150hp, 150lbtq 165mph at 5500rpm normally aspirated Road King uses stock clutch springs, Barnett extra plate clutch pack and a variable pressure plate. We built this 10 years ago and it’s still going strong. Same clutch. Same factory narrow bagger belt. It wheelies better than my Buell or my Suzuki.

      Your bike sounds like a contender for the TORQUE Wars unlimited class

      Rivera Primo Pro Clutch Kit with Variable Pressure Plate Assembly 1056-0024

      Omni Power GM 3 Bar Map Sensor Kit with Pigtail. Hand built in the USA

      This information is for discussion purposes of motorcycles being used in close course competition only. It maybe against federal and local laws to modify your motorcycle in this way for use on a public road or highway

      • Hey Mike
        Thanks for the feed back on items to support my boosted bike. Parts are on order. All true what you said earlier about the practice of adjusting timing to address popping noise in the exhaust. The popping is was referring to is about timing and ignition firing either too late or too early in the spark sequence or as we refer to as pinging. For those into boosting their bikes, totally fun, but time in a dyno cannot be undervalued and where a dyno is not handy the TwinScan II is an invaluable tool. I started with the Screamin Eagle Race Tuner, which is pretty restrictive and doesn’t directly account for boosted air flows. Now I am using Powercommander V (pti) which comes with the map (manifold absolute pressure) sensor and Autotune with wide band sensors. So far nothing has melted, though once I get bored with this I will take the motor out to 110ci (SE) or 107ci (S&S). It might be cheaper to go to the SE120 motor but I am having fun doing this.

        • Sorry for the confusion. For every tuner here in the US I know (hundreds) popping is usually noise coming from your exhaust and although it may be annoying it generally will not damage your engine. Pre-ignition, detonation, knock, ping,… is very serious and can severely damage your engine. so when we discuss it when need to be clear on the difference.

          This information is for discussion purposes of motorcycles being used in close course competition only. It maybe against federal and local laws to modify your motorcycle in this way for use on a public road or highway

  17. Hello Mike, great information you got here!!

    I have a 2010 Sportster 883R, with original factory Cams, Cycle Shacks slipons and K&N air filter. What would you recomend for a starting map on the Super Tuner?

    • The purpose of this blog post is to teach you how to select a Calibration/Map for your motorcycle.
      Using the criteria list of 3 items you can pick a map,
      1. Year/Family/Model
      2. Cam profile
      Intake open degrees (IO)
      Exhaust close degrees (EC)
      3. Exhaust System

      Of the 4 maps that fit your 2010 XL all are for Stock cams, and a performance exhaust system, but only one is for an 883,
      176XD207

      This information is for discussion purposes of motorcycles being used in close course competition only. It maybe against federal and local laws to modify your motorcycle in this way for use on a public road or highway

  18. I have a 2011 Wideglide with a screaming eagle high flow intake, vance and hines sideshots, and I just installed SE 255 cams on my 96ci motor. I have read your post and the comments and went through all he maps in the database, but the only map I can find that has 255 cams says it is for a motor that has had a stage 4 upgrade. Should i use this map and try to smart tune from there? I am thinking joining the members only site may be my best option to really learn ho to tune this best, but thought I would start here…any advise would be helpful!

    • Our goal is to educate you on how to pick your own maps.

      As matching the cam is critical in picking a base cal 176MS004.dt0 is the base cal for a 2011 Dyna Wide Glide the 103 with 255 cmas and will work as a starting point.
      You can lower the cubes to 96 if you like but if you are running free flowing exhaust leaving them at 103 may be best. A good dyno operator can figure that our when he calibrates this base map to your bike

      You will find links to the lists of Dyno Centers we recommend here: http://www.danielsperformance.com/rdc.html

      This information is for discussion purposes of motorcycles being used in close course competition only. It maybe against federal and local laws to modify your motorcycle in this way for use on a public road or highway

  19. Hi Mike, was wondering if you could help me with a proper tune on my 08 flhtc I just bought a couple months ago. the bike is stock with the exception of a Screamin Eagle cleaner & BUB 7 2 into 1 exhaust (loud baffle installed) and I have the Screamin Eagle Pro tuner. this is my first EFI bike, and need a bit of help tuning – as near as I can tell it’s way off as it runs very hot (turning the rear head pipe, muffler & even the heat shield gold). On the first (longer) trip a few days ago, at interstate speeds I would have to downshift to 5th on uphills just to maintain speed (very sluggish in 6th and surges). Any help would be greatly appreciated!

    • Our goal is to educate you on how to pick your own maps.
      Amusing you have stock cams the stage 1 map will work as a starting point. Since you have aftermarket exhausts you need to have the map custom calibrated to your bike on a Dyno.

      You will find links to the lists of Dyno Centers we recommend here: http://www.danielsperformance.com/rdc.html

      This information is for discussion purposes of motorcycles being used in close course competition only. It maybe against federal and local laws to modify your motorcycle in this way for use on a public road or highway

  20. Hi Mike,
    Wondering if you could help me with a base map, or something that will work.
    1: 2010 flhx
    2: se255
    3: T-header 2-1-2
    Also,
    big bore 103 with flat top pistons
    Arlen Ness Big Sucker
    My understanding is the exhaust I have is the reason the canned map in the sespt software doesn’t work well. Will timing tables from the cvo bikes work? Don’t they have the 255’s? I did notice the front timing table is a lot less aggressive than the rear table.

    Thank you.

    • Our goal is to educate you on how to pick your own maps.
      044SBN004.dt0 is the base cal for the 103 with 255 cmas and will work as a starting point. Since you have aftermarket exhausts you need to have the map custom calibrated to your bike on a Dyno.

      You will find links to the lists of Dyno Centers we recommend here: http://www.danielsperformance.com/rdc.html

      This information is for discussion purposes of motorcycles being used in close course competition only. It maybe against federal and local laws to modify your motorcycle in this way for use on a public road or highway

  21. 2004 fuel injected ultra classic
    cams: pretty sure they are just the stock cams
    95″ big bore kit.
    stock heads
    stock exhaust head pipes with dual 3″ kerker slip-ons with insulation gutted from baffles
    I like doin burnouts and goin fast.

    • Our goal is to educate you on how to pick your own maps.
      Most 95 inch Big Bore kits were installed with 203 cams.
      Amusing you have stock cams the stage 1 map will work as a starting point. Since you have aftermarket exhausts you need to have the map custom calibrated to your bike on a Dyno.

      You will find links to the lists of Dyno Centers we recommend here: http://www.danielsperformance.com/rdc.html

      This information is for discussion purposes of motorcycles being used in close course competition only. It maybe against federal and local laws to modify your motorcycle in this way for use on a public road or highway

  22. WOW! i just have to say your close to godliness helping out all these folks as you have. Do you have a map for a 2011 flhrc, stock cams, SE a/c, and VH Power Duals with VH Minster Rounds?

    • Our goal is to educate you on how to pick your own maps.
      Amusing you have stock cams the stage 1 map will work as a starting point. Since you have V&H pPower Duals you need to have the map custom calibrated to your bike on a Dyno.

      You will find links to the lists of Dyno Centers we recommend here: http://www.danielsperformance.com/rdc.html

      This information is for discussion purposes of motorcycles being used in close course competition only. It maybe against federal and local laws to modify your motorcycle in this way for use on a public road or highway

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